Monday, March 12, 2007


This was posted in my comments this morning. I couldn't let this one go.

"Greetings Sober Nuggets

I wonder if this might interest you: The 12 Steps Down To Hell

I imagine 12 Step recovery programs are a slow slide into the jaws of Satan. I was involved with this evil “satanic cult” for over 30 years but was saved through the power of Jesus Christ. He directed me to a therapist who was into “real” recovery, not the mind destroying, soul destroying, cult, which is AA. I have met two Steppers recently & I imagine they are completely devoid of any emotion or insight. I feel pain because both these men are decent human beings but AA has destroyed their individuality & they have no idea how to relate apart from expounding AA propaganda. I imagine Hell to be a continuous flow of AA meetings without any light at the end of the tunnel because one never recovers'. I beg you people who are in 12 Step programs, to get out before it is too late.How does one recover when one is handing one’s power over to AA. The 12 Steps were written out of Wilson’s head, he certainly didn’t get his guidance from the Bible. I imagine he was an agent of Satan & he & Smith’s “cult religion” has filled millions of Steppers with their anti - Christ propaganda.Step Three of AA is "Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him." While many in the Oxford Group placed their faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, there was much leeway given. Shoemaker, a leader of the Oxford Group, says, "The true meaning of faith is self-surrender to God." He further explains:Surrender to whatever you know about Him, or believe must be the truth about Him. Surrender to Him, if necessary, in total ignorance of Him. Far more important that you touch Him than that you understand Him at first. Put yourself in His hands. Whatever He is, as William James said, He is more ideal than we are. Make the leap. Give yourself to Him.Aside from capitalizing the "H," which Christians do to refer to the God of the Bible, "Him" could refer to any god of one’s own making.Can you see what is happening to you? Ask Jesus to take control of you lives, read the Bible & instead of 12 Step groups go to Bible study groups. Burn your Big Book or use it as toilet paper. Can you see the difference: With The 12 Steps, you never recover but with John 3:16 you are guaranteed Eternal Salvation. The “ball is in your court” I'm also a Catholic & AA nearly sent me insane. You are being brainwashed. Do you know that Jesus Christ is not mentioned once in the Big Book! Trust Jesus not Satan [12 Step Programs]
Peace Be With You

PS: I am a recovered alcoholic with over 21 years of sobriety"
3/12/2007 06:11:00 AM

Wow, where do I begin? I have a hard time with Christians saying things like this. Obviously Patrick doesn't understand why Jesus Christ is never mentioned in the Big Book. AA is not intended to be a Christian program, nor does it claim to be a Christian Program. It's sad that people have to assume that if you're not Christian, you must be Satanic or Godless. I know what The Bible says. I know that it says the only way to the Father is through the Son, that in order to get to God, you must come through Jesus. However, I believe there are many, many ways to Jesus and who knows what they all are. There's no way we can judge those things with our limited human minds. And to do so simply departs from how Jesus asks us to live in order to maintain a personal relationship with Him. We are not to judge, that is up to Jesus and God, not us. I guess the thing that disturbs me is that Patrick hasn't the courage to discuss his point of view. Rather, he would prefer to leave a venomous, derogatory post on my blog, without hanging round to defend that which is truly indefensible. To assert that AA is a Satanic cult is actually sort of funny, if it weren't so sad. AA has saved the lives and families of so many miserable, hopeless souls. Last time I checked, the Devil is in the business of claiming souls for himself.

Ironically, it is Alcoholics Anonymous which led me to Jesus Christ and the Catholic Church. I find that rather amusing after all Patrick had to say about AA. I only hope that you all do not allow Patrick to be the only example of a Catholic Christian you see. We don't all share Patrick's views, I can most definitely assure you of that. Ah well... I supposed I could've easily just deleted Patrick's post. I felt that it needed some discussion. I have seen websites dedicated to this sort of thing and it's troubling. So, I will probably always step forward to defend AA and try my best to be a good example of Christian faith.

Prayer for today...

JC/HP/God... I pray for You to be in my life today, that You might help me live a sober, useful life today. Thank You for bringing Patrick to me today. I suppose I needed his perspective in order to strengthen my faith in You and in the good works You do every day through Alcoholics Anonymous. I do not question Patrick's intentions, but please help me to be kind, compassionate and also understanding of the means he uses to accomplish his intentions. I know in my heart of hearts that You are the Way of Light and Truth. I pray that my personal ministry might take a more loving, less judgemental approach.

peace be with you all today!


lushgurl said...

Hey Scott it seems that 'our friend' is visiting all of our sober sites today.. Big chicken that I am though, I just deleted him!!!
Thank you for standing up for those of us who cannot (like ME)
I love AA, and if it IS a cult, that's ok with me, 'cause I owe AA and you (guys n' gals) my life!

Noor Azman Othman GBE said...

Don't know when is my turn? Should I enable moderation?

Hey Scott, is there a way to block someone like him to comment on our blog.

I got this type of comment too but it's not about religion. It's about me, as an addict.

Pam said...

ATTA Boy Scott.

Mary Christine said...

It is sad to see someone who has been hurt to the point this person is. I had someone else writing to me today... Sad.

vicariousrising said...

Hey, when is this dude going to come to my site?

Heh heh heh. I think he's talking about me. Although I think there's not a lot wrong with my individuality. And I'd love to take a stab at talking about the Bible. Used to read it for fun. Not a bad book, but it was written by people, just like the Big Book.

Got to wonder what this guy Patrick finds so threatening about AA. Is his faith somehow lessened by AA's existence? These things always make me wonder. I don't see a lot of AAers running around rampant causing harm. See a lot of bad things happening in the name of God, however. Just about every war, for instance.

Great post, Scott. I know I am on the heathenistic side of things, but I am more spiritual than I pretend. A cult or the devil's work, AA ain't. I like your "rebuttal" for a lack of a better word. It does bear discussion because I think it is something people fear about AA prior to entering the doors. Myself included.

Warm regards,

vicariousrising said...

PS when I say he is talking about me, I don't mean me specifically, but me, the Christian Godless type. Not that egotistical. Just to be clear.

dAAve said...

He gives me tons of gratitude. So do you, but in a much different and in a good way.

Lex-Sunshine said...

He got me too. I deleted his comment, since there was no way to reply or a blog to comment at, and stood up for me.

Nice to know I'm in YOUR company! And Lush's!!!! I'm happy to be right there with you wonderful people!!! Lifting each other up, not tearing each other up. That's one of the many things I so LOVE about this program.

Peace also to you!

Shannon said...

I had the exact same thing and I deleted it once I saw some other members took care of it. Because I am getting the feeling he is a sick individual who is enjoying stirring the pot. I think we all have addressed it and should just delete his comments and not give him any satisfaction.

and I am with you Scott
it is Alcoholics Anonymous which led me to Jesus Christ and that is how it had to be with me. I am so grateful for it. I just love you
have a super good day

Anonymous said...

Holy cow. I was pretty "taken aback" at those comments.

I agree with your view.
So many anti-AA people out there. It's sad an amusing at the same time.

Redhead Gal said...

I used to think AA was a cult too until I joined and got sober there. Good cult!

Patrick said...

Greetings Scott
I wonder if this might interest you:

Cancerous Growth

I imagine AA to be a cancerous growth in our society. I'm a recovered alcoholic who has been sober for over 21 years. I've seen this "cult" virtually destroy people where they become these Bill & Bob zombies devoid of any emotion. I imagine most of the Steppers are not dealing with their core issues and become addicted to the "droning Bill & Bob heads" who pop up and expel meaningless diatribe from their mouths. It's the only "disease" one doesn't recover from & one is continually confessing ones non - existent sins, which intensify the guilt and fear when one is not at a meeting (indoctrination session). I imagine the meetings numb and shutdown the critical thinking section of ones brain. I know a Stepper who has been sober 30 years and I imagine him to be quite mad - he doesn't even know what he's feeling most of the time apart from feeling depressed. I imagine AA to be the road to hell and that it's anti - Christ and the Steppers sell their souls to the "cult" [sAtAn], because they are too terrified to face their “demons” & recover their true selves. That "inner child" who is waiting to be freed is slowly pushed down until it disappears into oblivion. That "child" is God! "Unless you become like little children...." "The kingdom of God is within you!" I hear things like; "I need to do the Steps!" "I need more meetings!" "I had cancer or my wife died or I lost my job!" "But! Guess what! I didn't pick up a drink". They might as well say; "I fell of my chair but I didn’t pick up a drink!” "Meaningless!" Why? Because one is not expressing ones feelings! Ones process is all about one's feelings! How does one recover if one doesn’t feel ones pain, fear, & shame & understand that these feelings, especially if they are overwhelming; are feelings, from ones childhood. All AA does is suppress these feelings until one ends up a semi - depressed zombie like the lunatic who has been sober for 30 years. Can you see how dangerous this "cult" is? A madman, Bill Wilson, started it and if you want to end up like him, keep going to meetings. The sure way to insanity is "Meetings!" "Meetings!" "Meetings!"

Recovering Wino said...

True Christianity is not judgmental..and you're right, there are many ways to Jesus. AA is truly a God breathed program that leads many back to a deeper understanding of loving others and loving God "with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind and all your strength" Those are the greatest commandments...

Patrick needs to get the log out of his eye before he casts judgment about others.

AUSSIE said...

Once more unto the meeting, dear Steppers, once more;
or close the Group up with our Chairman dead.
In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
As modest Steppism and humility:
But when the blast of the “drunkalogues” blows in our ears,
Then imitate the action of the zombie;
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favour'd rage;
Then lend the eye to Chapter 5;
Let it pry through the portage of the head
Like the brass cannon; let the mind be programmed
As fearfully as doth a galled rock
O'erhang and jutty his confounded base,
Swill'd with the wild and wasteful Bill & Bob clones.
Now set the teeth and stretch the nostril wide
Hold hard the breath and bend up every brain cell
To his full height. On, on, you noble Stepper.
Whose mind is completely gone!
Fathers that, like so many Zombies,
Have in these parts from morn till even fought
And sheathed their Good Books for lack of argument:
Dishonour not your sponsors; now attest
That those whom you called “old-timers” did beget you.
Be copy now to men of grosser blood,
And teach them how to do the Steps. And you, good woman,
Whose brain was altered with Buchmanism, show us here
The mettle of your pasture; let us 13th Step you
That you are worth your breeding; which I doubt not;
For there is none of you so mean and base,
That hath not noble lust in your eyes.
I see you stand like Bill & Bob Heads in the slips,
Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:
Follow your Sponsor, and upon this charge
Cry “Keep Coming Back!” It Works If You Work It!

Michael said...

Salvation is always the ending of the minds fascinated identification with the dead and unchanging image of what it was. It is the complete reversal of the
"natural" order of things a METANOIA - the Greek word for repentance, meaning precisely a turning around of the mind, so that it no longer faces into the past, the land of the shadow of death, but into the Eternal Present.
So long as the mind is captivated by memory, and really feels itself to be that past image which is "I" it can do nothing to save itself; it's sacrifices are of no avail, and it's Law gives no life.
After years of therapy, I had a metamorphosis - I asked Jesus to have mercy on me & forgive me my sins. He delivered me from my inequities. Praise the Lord!!

Michael said...

The past is all our accumulated memories. These memories act in the present & create our hopes and fears of the future. These hopes and fears are the psychological future; without them there is no future. So the present is the action of the past, and the mind is this movement of the past. The past acting in the present creates what we call the future. This response of the past is involuntary, it is not summoned or invited, it is upon us before we know it.

QUESTION: How are we going to be from the past?

ANSWER: To be aware of this movement without choice – because choice again is more of this same movement of the past – is to observe the past in action: such observation is not a movement of the past. To observe without the image of thought is action is action in which the past has ended. To observe the tree without thought is action without the past. The state of seeing is more important than what is seen.

Michael said...

‘Why do you call me, “Lord, Lord” and not do what I say? Every one who comes to me and listens to my words and acts on them – I will show you what he is like. He is like the man who when he built is house dug, and dug deep, and laid the foundations on rock; when the river was in flood it bore down on the house but could not shake it, it was so well built. But the one who listens and does nothing is like the man who built his house on soil, with no foundations; as soon as the river bore down on it, it collapsed; and what a ruin this house became!’

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